Re: Baha'u'llah's speech

aaron corkill-bomgaars (acorkill@d.umn.edu)
Tue, Mar 21 1995 11:50:20 GMT

Virk Audil (3av2@qlink.queensu.ca) wrote:
: Mar3.211427.29365@cs.cornell.edu> <1995Mar13.153247.29436@cs.cornell.edu>:
: Distribution:

: Maya Kaathryn Bohnhoff (syntax@oro.net) wrote:

: : I see your point. You believe Baha'u'llah should have been able to put all of
: : His teachings in one book.

: I do not believe this is a necessity.

Then why do you make the argument?

: : First, Baha'u'llah's revelation was intended to give birth to a culture that
: : would endure for thousands of years, that would unite at entire world of diverse
: : cultures and peoples some of which had never heard of the Quran or the Bible or
: : any other revealed holy book.

: I do not see the above as any reason to have well over 80 books that are
: the Word of God.
: Islam also is a world wide religion, and Christians might argue their
: religion is as well, they only contain one book which they claim is
: the Word of God.

Diverse backgrounds give rise to many different ways of understanding and
seeing things. To a degree the massive volume of the Bahai Writings are
to state the same truths in such a way as to be unerstood by these many
different viewpoints.

: : The people to whom Muhammad brought His message
: : initially were much less diverse than those Baha'ullah's message must reach. I
: : believe that is one reason for the sheer volume and diversity of His writings.

: Is your reason that Baha'u'llah's writings must reach a much more diverse
: people ?
: If so, the same is true for the Holy Quran. The message of Islam is for
: all of mankind, as is readily noticeable when reading the Holy Quran.
: Many times a verse addresses mankind in general.

: : Second, Baha'u'llah was taxed with the mission of establishing a world
: : administrative order, something that would endure for millenia,
: : something into which humanity could grow and develop.

: See this is only your belief. Therefore not a valid point to me or
: anyone else who does not believe in the Bahai faith.

: I can answer easily by saying that Islam is the final religion and it is
: Islam which will have to endure. But it only has one Book which is the
: Word of God.

See this is only your belief. Therefore not a valid point to me or
anyone else who does not believe in your interpretations.

: The facts are Muslims claim to have one Book which is the Word of God.
: Bahais claim to have over 80 books which are the Word of God.

: I make no conclusions from this other than the fact that the teachings of
: Islam are contained within one book and the example of Muhammad (pbuh).

: The teachings of Baha'u'llah are contained within over 80 books, plus the
: real interpretations of these books are given in other books by Shogi
: Effendi and Abdul Baha.
: Who knows how much one would have to read to learn the teachings of the
: Bahai faith.

Being a Bahai is a learning expeirience that never completely ends. One
should never stop learning. The interpretations by the Master and the
Guardian are aids in this learning process. They provide additional ways
of looking at the writtings, sometimes other than that which is obvious.
I think that all one has to know is to never stop learning. If you had
memerized the Qur'an would you stop reading it and/or commentaries on
it? I hope not.

: : Third, (though it really is first in importance, I believe), Baha'u'llah says
: : His revelation is the day that will not be followed by night. His Faith will
: : not become divided, its covenant will remain inviolate and secure.

: I do not see these reasons as valid.
: They are simply your beliefs and Baha'u'llah's statements.
: Just as I believe Islam is the final religion.
: Does the fact that I believe it, make it true ? No, my believing has no
: effect on the truth/falseness of the matter.

A short comment: Islam teaches that Moses, Christ, and Muhammed all
taught the same thing, correct? Since this is the case why are their
teachings separeted by their followers? I would argue that what is meant
by Islam is in fact the Religion of God. What has happened to it seems
to be what has happened to it's previous branches (i.e. Christianity and
Judaism). While you might argue differently, so would most christians
and jews.

: : Every other
: : revealed religion has suffered from schism. There are thousands of sects of
: : Christianity, Islam is split between the Sunni and the Shiah (with other
: : splinter groups), there are Orthodox and non-orthodox Jews.

: True, this is a fact.

: : The covenant of
: : each faith has come into question and caused the faith to become divided,
: : which in turn has led to bloodshed and hatred when religion is intended as
: : a means of binding souls together.

: True, I would agree with the basics of the above statement.

: : The many teachings of Baha'u'llah are
: : intended to keep this from happening.

: I would argue that the teachings of Islam if followed would also stop
: this from happening. But if the teachings are not followed then who is
: to say what would happen.

Again, with all the current translations/interpretations who is to say
what is the correct manner in which to follow these teachings? This is
one of the reasons for the necessity of a new religion. It provides new
athority and a new way of following Gods will. Unfortunately a
reformation does not accomplish this.

: : He established His covenant, so Bahai's would
: : know who to turn to when He was gone, He established an
: : administrative order to provide structure to the community of believers.
: : In this way He kept fallible humans from having to decide the structure
: : of the community by committee.

: Fine, Baha'u'llah might have done all of this.

: : There are several different schools of Islamic theology built on the attempt to
: : interpret from the verses of the Quran, what Muhammad intended His people to
: : believe about different subjects such as life after death.

: I see no problem with this, except one, it was what God intended His
: people to believe about different subjects.

I don't see your point, please clarify.

: : Bahu'llah spoke to
: : these issues directly, dealing with the life of souls as well as the life of a
: : global society.

: The Holy Quran deals with these issues as well. I do not
: believe any other Book deals with life after death as explicitly as the
: Holy Quran.

But what about life in a global community? And forgive my ignorance of
the Qur'an, how far exactly does it explain the afterlife?

: : Could this have been all put into one book ?

: Obviously I believe it has been as I am a Muslim.
: I hope it will not be interpreted that I mean, that every Bahai concept
: is incorprated in the Holy Quran. Some Bahai concepts are against the
: Holy Quran such as the eating of pork.

No offense, but that is an ancient argument. The Pharasees argued when
Jesus changed the laws of divorce and the Sabbath. Does that mean that
he was against the Torah? No, in fact he fulfilled the Law of Moses.

: : I suppose, but why should it have to have been?

: It doesn't have to be, this was never my point.

(stuff deleted)

: : Muhammad's teachings are all collected into one book,
: : Baha'u'llah's are not. Why is this important?

: It is not important if one knows which religion is the true. It is of
: great importance when we are comparing religions to find which one is
: from God and which one is false.
: For example, if one religion contains an infinite amount of information
: in one book and another contains an infinite amount of information in 80
: books. Which book(s) is superior ?

It is not volume that matters when comparing books, it is content. Also,
religious truth is relative, everyone must find and follow their own
path. One can only know for themselves if a religion/belief is true or not.

: : Much of what is in the Quran is difficult for someone living in this day and
: : age to relate to because Muhammad was speaking to a different people, with
: : different common experiences.

: No, it is God who is speaking in the Holy Quran, not Muhammad.
: Hadith are the supposed words of Muhammad (pbuh).

The point seems to have been missed. The Qur'an was for those living
1300 years ago. While it is still, in many ways, applicable today, so is
the Bible even with it's minor innacuracies. Both books are still
excelent spiritual and moral guides.

: Thanks
: Audil Virk (my opinions only)

I appologize if any of the above is or appears to be offensive. That was
never my intent and I hope it isn't taken in that manner.

Thanks
Aaron Corkill-Bomagaars
acorkill@ub.d.umn.edu